new NIN songs and the new industry standard...

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new NIN songs and the new industry standard...

Postby cyrilgrey » Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:56 am

I did put this under "unrelated", but then, as i wrote more, i realized i was talking a lot about Killing Joke, so i moved it here:\
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for those who don't know, nineinchnails has released 2 more free songs. They recorded studio versions of "Not So Pretty Now" and "Non-Entity". It's part of the NIN/JA promotion and you can find them on the NIN website. I'm very happy bacause I loved "Not So Pretty Now" and it's so nice to be able to listen to it without him singing "you keep fading and fading and fading the --k away!". Rumor has it that a lot of labels will be pushing bands to release one or two songs every few months (not for free- that's just NIN being awesome!) so as to keep the act on the public's radar. I sure would love it if Killing Joke did that, but I doubt they will. They're more of an album band. The new "method" is more for singles-type bands like Kings of Leon and Coldplay. Still, KJ could use it as a way to unload some of the stuff sitting around in the basements (of hell). Maybe release odd unreleased songs from past albums or demos just to keep in the game. With such a devoted fanbase eagerly awaiting the "new" album, i think it would serve Killing Joke well to do something like releasing a few odd songs to ease the wait-- even if one or two of them appear on the album. They must read enough boards to know the fans are really not happy about such a long wait and, as we established SOOO many times, they have screwed up quite a few times at our expense, so why not treat the fans to a few gifts (even if we have to pay 1 euro/$1 per song). I tell ya, each time NIN does something like this, it makes me want to support them by buying things more.
"you make a prison of my life, if you became another's wife. With all the prisons blown to dust, my enemies walk free- I'm mad about you"
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Re: new NIN songs and the new industry standard...

Postby Sapromind » Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:20 am

Thanks for the info, I'm gonna get them right away.\
cyrilgrey wrote:I tell ya, each time NIN does something like this, it makes me want to support them by buying things more.
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I absolutely agree. I bought "Year Zero" mostly because Trent started all this talking about releasing music for free. 'YZ' was expensive as hell, but I thought I owed it him, just because he respects the fans so much. Later he recorded "The Slip" and put on nin.com as a free download, saying something like "thanks for all the years of support, this one's on me". Come on, you gotta love this guy \:D\ \
On the other hand, NIN is a bigger band, I don't know if Jeremy & friends could afford something like that.
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Re: new NIN songs and the new industry standard...

Postby cyrilgrey » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:14 pm

Sapromind wrote:\
On the other hand, NIN is a bigger band, I don't know if Jeremy & friends could afford something like that.
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Very true! Although, we could say the next one is "pre-paid" for after GoP and a few other minor "mistakes". They could post the album, then we'll post "This one's on US!" \:D\
"you make a prison of my life, if you became another's wife. With all the prisons blown to dust, my enemies walk free- I'm mad about you"
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Re: new NIN songs and the new industry standard...

Postby cyrilgrey » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:24 pm

Are Killing Joke "free agents" right now? If so, then the $1 everyone pays would be all profit for them (or like 0.97) which is better than they get per album. I think i read that a band usually nets about $2.25 per CD sold, so, if it was a 10-song CD, that's 0.23 a song! They'd do a lot better to release songs the "new way". I also noticed, a few bands i like who are self-financed these days are actually pushing out material A LOT faster now. Maybe it's the excitement of actually getting paid for their work or maybe it has to do with less interference from the greed-heads, but free agents seem to have a lot easier time of things. so i hope Killing Joke go that way soon...
"you make a prison of my life, if you became another's wife. With all the prisons blown to dust, my enemies walk free- I'm mad about you"
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Re: new NIN songs and the new industry standard...

Postby Mr.Punch » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:25 pm

You both are quite right with your views.\
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Personally I think that KJ, at least Jaz and Youth could affort producing things the way NIN (aka Trent Reznor) do, and maybe they will someday...who knows?\
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I already guess, they make more income from Downloads like i-Tunes,/ Digital etc than via ordinary sales,that shows the "Limited Edition" Politics of the label.\
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Generaly I think that we`re moving backwards in time to the pre - records aera. Sooner or later the market will collapse totally and artists/Bands have to play live to make a living..and the days of record Billionares are counted.\
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Next generations will only download what they like to hear...and when the money dries out cos of the world wide financial chaos going on (and we`re just at the very beginning of the worst I`m afraid) than nobody will spend his last coins on records...\
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and besides that some of us ( and I count myself and you Herr Cyril in \;)\ ) use to behave like Vampires...GIVE ME FRESH BLOOD everyday! \:D\ The Band releases more stuff than ever before in the whole damn carreer. And I think/at least hope, there are loads of people outsides who were very happy with the Bootleg CDs the Pantomime...Duende...John Peel...Forum Discs etc etc...\
Just because a lot of us already owned most of them recordings, does`nt mean they`re totally senseless.\
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The Un-released stuff...well you know Cyril, I asked Geordie in Berlin for Tailspin and he could`nt remember a song titled Tailspin...
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Re: new NIN songs and the new industry standard...

Postby cyrilgrey » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:45 pm

Honestly, i don't want to find Tailspin anymore. There is no way it will ever be as good as my mind has made it (actually, given that it was one of the 2003 songs, it still may be every bit as good as i hope). \:D\ \
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There is an excellent side-effect of the digital age and record collecting, and again, it was nineinchnails that first made me realize this; that is that fewer people are buying the CD singles and vinyl and limited edition when they come out because they figure they can DL now, then buy them later. Soon, it slips their minds and no-one buys the stuff. A few years later, collectors decide they want the piece for collection purposes, and now they are impossible to find, so suddenly you can sell the stuff for-- wow, insane amounts. I sold my NIN- "Into the Void" CD Single for $220, same with the 3-part "We're in this Together" Single. I was recently on Amazon and I saw a Rubicon (ex-Nephilim) bootleg CD that I have selling for $160. The Disturbed - "Land of Confusion" CD Single, only 3-years-old, sells for $80. There is a lot of random things like that. Problem with that is you never know what will be worth anything and what won't. I still have a few copies each of "Exorcism" and "MINOG" CD3, and they are not worth diddily. Why is Disturbed worth more than Killing Joke? I have no idea, but there it is. It's also like stocks- sometimes you should sell them but you don't, then a remaster or something comes out and suddenly, your Japanese editions of "Pandemonium" and "Democracy" are not worth as much, despite the fact that the latter has "Mass" on it, making it the perfect edition of "Democracy", whereas the remaster only has those remixes. It's stranger now with torrents because people can go and download an entire 20CD discography in one-shot and suddenly have EVERY song a band ever officially released. Where's the fun in that? I miss the days of tracking down out-of-print singles for a new b-side or cool artwork, but times change and, after all, that's what this thread is about-- Killing Joke's need to evolve. "Dodge the bullets, or carry the gun, the choice is yours!"
"you make a prison of my life, if you became another's wife. With all the prisons blown to dust, my enemies walk free- I'm mad about you"
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Re: new NIN songs and the new industry standard...

Postby Jaggedone » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:25 am

cyrilgrey wrote:Honestly, i don't want to find Tailspin anymore. There is no way it will ever be as good as my mind has made it (actually, given that it was one of the 2003 songs, it still may be every bit as good as i hope). \:D\ \
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There is an excellent side-effect of the digital age and record collecting, and again, it was nineinchnails that first made me realize this; that is that fewer people are buying the CD singles and vinyl and limited edition when they come out because they figure they can DL now, then buy them later. Soon, it slips their minds and no-one buys the stuff. A few years later, collectors decide they want the piece for collection purposes, and now they are impossible to find, so suddenly you can sell the stuff for-- wow, insane amounts. I sold my NIN- "Into the Void" CD Single for $220, same with the 3-part "We're in this Together" Single. I was recently on Amazon and I saw a Rubicon (ex-Nephilim) bootleg CD that I have selling for $160. The Disturbed - "Land of Confusion" CD Single, only 3-years-old, sells for $80. There is a lot of random things like that. Problem with that is you never know what will be worth anything and what won't. I still have a few copies each of "Exorcism" and "MINOG" CD3, and they are not worth diddily. Why is Disturbed worth more than Killing Joke? I have no idea, but there it is. It's also like stocks- sometimes you should sell them but you don't, then a remaster or something comes out and suddenly, your Japanese editions of "Pandemonium" and "Democracy" are not worth as much, despite the fact that the latter has "Mass" on it, making it the perfect edition of "Democracy", whereas the remaster only has those remixes. It's stranger now with torrents because people can go and download an entire 20CD discography in one-shot and suddenly have EVERY song a band ever officially released. Where's the fun in that? I miss the days of tracking down out-of-print singles for a new b-side or cool artwork, but times change and, after all, that's what this thread is about-- Killing Joke's need to evolve. "Dodge the bullets, or carry the gun, the choice is yours!"
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Why is Disturbed more popular than KJ / I think I can answer that one: Disturbed (seen them live 5 times and will see them again this June in Tilburg Holland / can't wait!) have worked their butts off to reach the status at where they're at now. 4 superb albums, all different and non - stop touring. I first saw them in Tilburg 4 years ago in front of 2000 people, now they sell out bigger venues with no problem and have left other nu metal bands in their wake a lá Korn. They have developed their live act, superb, they give everything and David Draimann is a superb figurhead. Also they've crossed the boundaries and produced aggressive metal + slightly softer, melodious metal appealling to a broader base of fans, young and old.\
KJ are a cult band, progressing and ripening over a period of nearly thirty years. Attracting old school fans who are totally mesmerised by the KJ evolution. Younger fans fail to recognise this talent and prefer newer ind - metal bands such a NIN, Rammstein, etc, for example.\
KJ hardly appeal to younger fans because the kids are not interested in the "evolution" of KJ and have hardly any appreciation of what bands like KJ have done for the progressive, rock, industrial metal scenes. KJ have a die hard base of global fans who excitedly await every single piece of new art that they produce. The kids and younger metal fans prefer to listen to Metallica, Slipknot (superb) Slayer, Machinehead, Soulfly, Cradle of Filth (crap) Bullet For My Valentine, Chemical Romance, etc.\
To try and make younger metal / rock fans understand that without the superb work of such bands like KJ, Ministry, Prodigy, Joy Division, etc there would be no NIN, Rammstein, Killers, Bloc Party even Slipknot, etc, is very difficult and basically a waste of time. The new generations of metal fans want up to date action and are not particularly interested in the foundations and evolution of the metal scene. I work with load of young metal fans selling merchandise to them and these days if you ask them who KJ are they just give you an innocent, naive look and answer who fuck are you talking about!! \:twisted:\ Hence the demand for Disturbed (a shining light in the not so nu metal scene by the way!) CD's merchandise, etc. I ordered 4 new KJ shirts recently and the price was 10,50 per shirt, try and get a Metallica, Slipknot shirt for that price, no way. \;)\
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Re: new NIN songs and the new industry standard...

Postby Mr.Punch » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:51 am

Jagg, please, it`s not necessary to quote the whole text somebody wrote...I think it`s enough to do it this way:\
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Cyril:Honestly, i don't want to find Tailspin anymore....\
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then your text. It`s all because of Bandwith OK?! \;)\\
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Re: new NIN songs and the new industry standard...

Postby Jaggedone » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:16 pm

Thanks Mr.Punch, on other forums thats the way its done, next time better, hows Judy by the way? \;)\
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Re: new NIN songs and the new industry standard...

Postby Mr.Punch » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:46 pm

@ Jagg\
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I know..on other forums..and always asked me why should I read anythging twice \:D\ so..\
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Judy is in her cage, waiting to be treated well! \:twisted:\ \:P\ \
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Youngsters don`t know KJ today..cos it`s a 80s Band. And the youngsters wanna see, hear their heroes..and at least read about them in the papers/mags etc etc...\
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(Although I saw a lot of say, twens or near twens lasttime in Berlin,perhaps it´s a European Phanomenon?)\
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KJ does`nt even have a propper Homepage where the Followers are giving news..eg: if the Band is recording, or if Jaz is doing this and Geordie that...\
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But it seems KJs politics all over the years. When I think of the days before the Internet, HELL, sometimes there were 3 or more years without the slightest info...I might`ve thought they`d split up.\
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They never gave a shit about publicity nor will they ever do...a fact we have to live with..gee. \:roll:\
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