Favourite KJ bassist

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Re: Favourite KJ bassist

Postby jonnie » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:10 pm

youth all the way- even though raven was a better bass player(rip).
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Re: Favourite KJ bassist

Postby NOF » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:36 pm

Bluce_Ree wrote:\
Youth then comes back in the 90s as a big shot producer and drops two albums of absolutely nothingy bass. Also, his playing on the WFT material during the recent tour simplified the already simple basslines.\
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His bassplaying on Pandaemonium and Democracy may be substandard, but it overlooks that vitually allof Raven's basslines were substandard plodding.\
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If you listen to the 4 Be 2 track on Yoof's podcast, you can hear Killing Joke in there. That was a year before Turn to Red. I also believe he wrote the bassline for Blue Room by The Orb, also regarded as a top bassline. He can still pull it off. His podcast offers up other cracking basslines recorded long after Pandaemonium and Democracy.
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Re: Favourite KJ bassist

Postby cyrilgrey » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:37 am

NOF wrote: but it overlooks that vitually allof Raven's basslines were substandard plodding.
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really? I mean your opinion is valid, but you really think it is THAT bad? I love Raven's work, but I would not say that Youth's was dismal- it is still good- I mean, it's fucking Killing Joke. Any significant member of Killing Joke is excellent by most standards, just some might prefer one to another, but to dismiss Raven's body of work as "plodding"? \
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Don't know. But, like I said, you have a right to feel that way...
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Re: Favourite KJ bassist

Postby NOF » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:51 am

cyrilgrey wrote:\
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really? I mean your opinion is valid, but you really think it is THAT bad? I love Raven's work, but I would not say that Youth's was dismal- it is still good- I mean, it's fucking Killing Joke. Any significant member of Killing Joke is excellent by most standards, just some might prefer one to another, but to dismiss Raven's body of work as "plodding"? \
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Don't know. But, like I said, you have a right to feel that way...
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Well, perhaps I'm being a bit harsh. But the only Raven bassline that sticks in my mind is the long intro on Victory (and even then, it's essentialy Level 42 esque).
'I'm not a jukebox'\
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Re: Favourite KJ bassist

Postby Bluce_Ree » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:25 pm

Let's reopen this one then.

Raven's lines weren't plodding. His playing was sharp and didn't just double the guitar parts. His Adorations line is a good example. His playing drives the songs and gave Geordie the space to do his relaxed, loose style of playing.

Youth hasn't done a good bassline on any of the last three albums. The best song in that time is Big Buzz (IMO) and that's because at least the bass is seperate to the guitar so you can hear both.

I think Youth is genuinely terrible at playing bass and it is really affecting KJ's sound.
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Re: Favourite KJ bassist

Postby LSDMOFRO » Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:25 pm

I've actually wanted to open this discussion because there's a particular sound that KJ has and I've narrowed it down
coming from the bass or possibly bass synth. It's the sound of movement. It's hard to describe. I'm at work but I've kept a small running list
of songs that show this "movement" in one of my poetry journals. And it's a bit trippy and cool and is a motif in KJ's music. One song off the top of my head is Inside the Termite Mound. It's a one bass note, a long one, that comes periodically. I was thinking this was pure Raven,
but then I believe I heard this sound from some of the earlier songs with Youth. Now that I think of it, I could definitely say Blood Sport has this long Bass note-esque sound that represents movement (or passage of time). I don't have my journal with me that I've written down this sound. Basically, I wanted to listen to the entire KJ discography with intensive ears and write down all the songs that have this signature.
For me it is interesting and there's more meaning behind it then it being a simple bass sound. Sometimes this sound is very subliminal and sometimes it is very much in the forefront like it is in Bloodsport and Inside the Termite Mound. I do think that Jaz has made it part of the structure because I found it's not just limited to Raven, was present in earlier songs with Youth, but Raven I believe used it a bit more.

On who's better...it's hard to say. I think that Youth's bass in the early albums and earlier EPS was some pretty bad ass stuff. With that said, over time, I think he's gotten sloppier...I think his approach has changed...and generally, he's more into the sonic landscape now than he is "being a bass player". I think generally, Raven is just a better all around bass player, has more experience being a bass player (and not just with Killing Joke) and that you KNOW IT when he's playing! All the Murder Inc stuff are blow your head off bass lines. Then we have the Ministry stuff and all the other side projects. I think Youth has gotten more into a guitar style bass player (yes, I know they are both guitars but I think you know what I mean). With that said. I was going to research him a little more on his bass playing and style as I read somewhere that he was the forefront and innovator in a certain way of playing (and that also may be gear specific, or bass guitar specific)... I don't know, I read it briefly and put it on the back burner to research a little further.

Anyways, glad you opened this topic Blue!!!!!
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Re: Favourite KJ bassist

Postby shooty » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:48 am

They've both had their moments...not recently though.
Youths bass lines were great on WTF and I feel he did write them, in the same way I feel Geordie did write the bass on 2003, I think there's a different brain at work on WTF, the style is so different to the guitar on there. Lately though, it's all root note playing.
When you consider that Raven petty much went into the studio cold for Extremities, the sound and rhythm he created with Atkins is nothing short of magnificent! However, by Hosannas much of that magic had gone. Also, I could never understand why a bassist of his apparent ability didn't seem able to play psyche properly.
Maybe Jaz has his bassists all lobotomised!
I don't know about the best live because the live sound has been shocking for about twenty years now! Who is the sound man? Do they actually pay him?
Overall though I'll give it Youth because the songwriting seems a bit more diverse with him in there, not everyone's cup of tea I know, but I like it.
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Re: Favourite KJ bassist

Postby LSDMOFRO » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:45 am

shooty wrote:They've both had their moments...not recently though.
Youths bass lines were great on WTF and I feel he did write them, in the same way I feel Geordie did write the bass on 2003, I think there's a different brain at work on WTF, the style is so different to the guitar on there. Lately though, it's all root note playing..


interesting. Well WTF...they were all on acid...the record was recorded on acid. It's one of a very few records where they were all tripping... And it ain't a happy record,,,very dark, very introspective, probably one of the most darkest deepest influential records to Many PEOPLE! . It's wicked. I challenge anyone to take a natural psychedelic and listen to the record by yourself. It all will make sense...promise. And u will see the beauty behind the dark windows of your mind and the fear that exists within your mind. It's really not that much different than what we are hearing now...it's more just maturity...and convenience...and the requiem of the struggle. We all feel the struggle. We are just older...the juice is different.

I think it was the year 2000 when I did such with WTF and under my username.. The bass is definitely Youth. And it definitely is a BAND effort.
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Re: Favourite KJ bassist

Postby Bluce_Ree » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:56 pm

LSDMOFRO wrote:
shooty wrote:They've both had their moments...not recently though.
Youths bass lines were great on WTF and I feel he did write them, in the same way I feel Geordie did write the bass on 2003, I think there's a different brain at work on WTF, the style is so different to the guitar on there. Lately though, it's all root note playing..


interesting. Well WTF...they were all on acid...the record was recorded on acid. It's one of a very few records where they were all tripping... And it ain't a happy record,,,very dark, very introspective, probably one of the most darkest deepest influential records to Many PEOPLE! . It's wicked. I challenge anyone to take a natural psychedelic and listen to the record by yourself. It all will make sense...promise. And u will see the beauty behind the dark windows of your mind and the fear that exists within your mind. It's really not that much different than what we are hearing now...it's more just maturity...and convenience...and the requiem of the struggle. We all feel the struggle. We are just older...the juice is different.

I think it was the year 2000 when I did such with WTF and under my username.. The bass is definitely Youth. And it definitely is a BAND effort.


You're probably right but it's odd that the two best basslines on WTF are now played differently live by him. The notes he leaves out completely ruin it.

I wonder who played the bass on 2003 because Seeing Red sounds nothing like Youth.
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Re: Favourite KJ bassist

Postby Mr.Punch » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:13 pm

I read in several Interviews that on 2003 it`s except for about two or three songs Geordie on Bass.
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