For those of you not on the mailing list--9/15/11

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Re: For those of you not on the mailing list--9/15/11

Postby LSDMOFRO » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:17 am

Well, I did pledge before I even got back to this page. Just trying to support the band. SO! I hope they support me\
by not f@%@ cancelling shows and being like a drunken step father with f@%@$# empty promises and giving me the belt. \
Hey! I buy everything! All the turds and all the diamonds. And...that last "unofficial live album", well, I listend to it twice! \
I did a second time to make sure I wasn't completely bombed and made a mistake it didn't suck. But it does suck! And Jaz's vocals sound terrible\
in a few tracks, there wasn't the intensity of the live shows I have witnessed, and the song tracking on the CD's is NOT correct.\
I understand it's live and a whim production and Jaz may have done twenty shows before it, etc, etc...but it's not a great album...so I am hoping\
for a better product here...I believe it's pretty much the same set list per FMsetlist (with maybe one or two differences)... \
I imagine they weren't happy with that last live album. Like I said...and NOONE here wants to talk about "Clipping"...I just hope there's no clipping...I hope we\
can actually hear the entire band. Hey...if I sound like a spoiled step son with PTSD...then I am. I expect professionalism from these\
multi-talented genius musicians. I have done a lot of street word and promoted this band for decades...I have supported this band because\
I love this band...when I get haphazard shit and empty promises...and the fact that they can't stay with just one label says alot...\
and I have a right to bitch and complain...this forum, you gatherers are my PHD in counseling!
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Re: For those of you not on the mailing list--9/15/11

Postby cyrilgrey » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:33 am

you're damn right we don't want to talk about clipping! Why the hell would we- would ANYONE want to talk about clippi-- wait. what's clipping? \:D\
"you make a prison of my life, if you became another's wife. With all the prisons blown to dust, my enemies walk free- I'm mad about you"
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Re: For those of you not on the mailing list--9/15/11

Postby LSDMOFRO » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:34 am

cyrilgrey wrote:you're damn right we don't want to talk about clipping! Why the hell would we- would ANYONE want to talk about clippi-- wait. what's clipping? \:D\
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Oh my, tigers and bears and clipping, oh my! Cyrilgrey! My man! I thought you'd never ask:\
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This explains it pretty well:\
Here is a video which gives an exemple of what "clipping" does to music (it's nothing to do with editing/splicing tracks):\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ\
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Also, from Crosstowntorrents.org ( a forum I once spend a bit of time at in the winter months yearly):\
Spaceman explains in particular to clipping and digital remasters of a Jimi album\
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http://home.pacific.net.au/~spaceman/jimi/clipping.htm\
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and this post BELOW from Crosstowntorrents from Astroman. For me regarding what Astroman says,\
it's not that Absolute Dissent had a low audio level...and they need to ramp it up...it's a style an\
engineer/producer uses (like the youtube video explains). It's part of the loudness war. I honestly am\
100 percent in belief this technique was used to ramp up the sound and make distortion for most of the songs,\
even the mellow ones on like the Raven King (but to a far lesser extent). I love many songs on AD,\
the Great Cull is awesome...it works...but honestly, I can't hear any dynamics in sound on the album, the faintly subliminal\
stuff, the keys, etc, etc...there aren't highs and lows....JUST LOUDNESS and distortion in my car, on my badass home \
stereo...on my IPAD headphones, etc, etc:\
\
1. Re: Digital Clipping \
this gonna get a but technical:\
\
In the analog the world, the higher the sound pressure level, the higher dB number.\
In the digital domain, you start with 0 dBFS (full scale) as the maximum, and then you work your way down (e.g. -12 dBFS).\
\
So if the peak signal is too loud it will reach above 0 dBFS, but since it can't go above zero, the signal will be clipped:\
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In the "old" days of digital audio, you would keep the signal well below 0 dBFS, but with the loudness war, some limiters exploid the fact that you can have several consecutive samples without being able to actually hear distortion, an your cd player will act in the analog domain as if the level went above 0 dBFS. (a cd has the samplerate of 44.1 kHZ = 44100 samples per second). So if you have six consecutive samples, we're talking 6/441000 of a second.\
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The overall goal is to raise the low level audio as well, so that everything will sound louder. \
Therefore the mastering technician will compress the dynamic of the music to reduce the peaks.\
This will also raise the noisefloor, so on the Douglas editions, you can hear noisegates being used.\
\
Very few people will hear the actual clipping. It's more the missing dynamic of audio that will sound harsh and "unmusicallly".\
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BTW: I should add that I'm only refering to "profesional" clipping. If the overall signal is clipped the out come will be very harsh distortion. \
\
Mats is correct in his assumption that the clipping has occured before the mastering. Most digital limiters will have the option that you set the actual peak limit below 0 dBFS (say -0,3 dBFS). This is done make sure you do not overload the cd player.. \
Last edited by karsten; 02-23-10 at 10:48 AM.
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Re: For those of you not on the mailing list--9/15/11

Postby cyrilgrey » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:43 pm

holy crap! thanks. that is really wild. I think I sensed that on certain new albums or remastered albums recently w/o really knowing what was going on. I guess it is pretty much the same reason vinyl often sounds better-- which is why I get confused why anyone would want to own a vinyl copy of an album that was mastered as a CD and later transferred to vinyl, but... well, who am I to say?
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Re: For those of you not on the mailing list--9/15/11

Postby LSDMOFRO » Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:28 pm

cyrilgrey wrote:holy crap! thanks. that is really wild. I think I sensed that on certain new albums or remastered albums recently w/o really knowing what was going on. I guess it is pretty much the same reason vinyl often sounds better-- which is why I get confused why anyone would want to own a vinyl copy of an album that was mastered as a CD and later transferred to vinyl, but... well, who am I to say?
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I've always been puzzled by that as well, the master of the digital to vinyl. I haphazardly collect vinyl and have all my vinyl from my teens. I think for a lot of people, even some of my friends, t's about clarity which they believe to be sound quality. I have or seek out any Jimi Hendrix that has that analog hiss. Basically, anything before the Janie and Experience Project gets there hand on. Even though the analog of say, Are You Experience, was converted to digital for a CD in the early 90's and has 0's and 1's. There's a warmth and quality I can hear as opposed to the remastered of the remastered to the new and improved mastere of the remaster. Yeah...the sound is clear as a bell...that warmth really is missing, and noticiable to me.\
For me, when there's clipping...that's completely obvious...and Absolute Dissent appears to me to have those production values...or is competing in the Loudness War. NO one here can tell me the record does distort in their car stereo 1/2 past on the volume level. No one here can tell me that the production isn't totally drowned in loudness. I do love most of the songs...but the loudness of this record is unlike any KJ record EVER produced..and does limit my true appreciate to all these great musicians.
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Re: For those of you not on the mailing list--9/15/11

Postby PsychoMan » Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:58 pm

Also keep in mind, that the sound of a vinyl can be drastically changed by the pick-up / cartridge you're using, the kind of amplifier etc.\
\
My colleauge has an old Thorens turntable connected to a 70s Marantz amplifier with a pair of Quadral speakers. This combo kicks ass and sounds totally different to my setup, which isn't that bad too (Dual 601, Pro-Ject Preamp, Pioneer amp, Teufel speakers) but you may see the same record in a different light / with a different feel to it.\
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The whole clipping and remaster thing... Check out this very interesting article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war\
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If you want to hear a really badly clipped album check out Red Hot Chili Peppers Californication or Metallicas Death Magnetic. The Absolute Dissent CD release is also badly clipped (load the tracks into an audio editor of your choice) but at least for me its some kind of stylistic device, fitting the very rough production.
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Re: For those of you not on the mailing list--9/15/11

Postby cyrilgrey » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:08 pm

so is Hasannas... badly clipped or is that just muddy production?
"you make a prison of my life, if you became another's wife. With all the prisons blown to dust, my enemies walk free- I'm mad about you"
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Re: For those of you not on the mailing list--9/15/11

Postby Amalgam » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:11 pm

I can't help it, but the title makes me think of Neil Young. Did anyone of you folks here know that Neil Young had a song called "Down by the River" back in 1969? it was on an album called "Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere". Back in the 90's I was quite into long and boring guitar solos. But Geordie isn't, while I suspect he may like Neil Young nevertheless. Someone should ask him about this.\
\
Oh and, speaking of 'Geord': listen to this:\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2op5hiWxzsc
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